S5E5: From Merchandising to Memory Keepers: The Dickies Archivists’ Tale

Transcript:

Erin Narloch  0:11  

I’m really excited for today’s conversation. We have Corinna Wright and Ann Richardson with us from the Dickies archive, and these two individuals are great ambassadors of how a homegrown archive can really serve a business, both of them coming from outside the corporate archive space, they really worked to bring to life an invaluable brand asset over the last 15 plus years, our conversation caps off both of their careers as they are exiting the business within a month’s time of our conversation, I really want to thank both of them for diving deep and sharing honestly their experience in both the Dickies brand and what it took to create such a valuable asset. I hope you enjoy today’s conversation as much as I have, here we go.

Well, good morning. Thank you so much for being with me today. I’m really excited for this conversation. So to kick us off, can you tell me who you are and how long you’ve been at Dickies?

Ann Richardson  1:40  

Hi, I’m Ann Richardson, and I’ve been at Dickies for over 50 years. I’m not counting anymore.

Corinna Wright  1:52  

Amazing, and good morning. I’m Corinna Wright, and I have been with Dickies for 28 years. 

Erin Narloch  1:59  

Great, and how did the archive become a part of your role?

Ann Richardson  2:06  

Well, Corinna started the archive, and then I just started helping with the archive, and both of us have had other jobs that we did at Dickies. So it was the labor of love.

Corinna Wright  2:23  

And, yeah, and as we built it up, you know, obviously with Ann’s knowledge, you know, and we were getting customers in, or we were having new employees. And, you know, it has the story of Dickies. So we started off in a very small archive, but we would start off with the history. So Ann was, and what’s great about is Ann has, you know, has the knowledge, and then just really great little extra

Ann Richardson  2:53  

color. Stories, about young people that were involved, or how this happened, or, yeah, just things I remember from being there.

Erin Narloch  3:08  

Great. So this was, you know, you both mentioned kind of a labor of love, and it was an add on to the roles you had, right? Um, so can you tell us a little bit about the roles you’ve had at Dickies, in addition to the archive.

Ann Richardson  3:25  

Well, when I came to the company, I was always in merchandising. And merchandising the company was smaller than and merchandising was a pretty small operation but by the time the archive began, I was doing, I think trend research maybe, and GM of outerwear. And then moved into this other product line, dickies 1922 which was an archival line, and some of it was replicas of some of our earlier garments. And actually, Corinna started that also. And so, yeah, it’s always, always been a merchandising, product development and type of background, great.

Corinna Wright  4:37  

And for me, Ann hired me. So thanks, Ann. So Ann hired me as a product manager working on men’s shirts, and then that, over time, grew into becoming the designer and then a senior designer and Senior Design Manager, which is still currently my, my type, my job description, but I, gosh, so it’s probably 15, 16, years ago. The VP of merchandising and design at the time came from Levi’s, and he’s like, where are your vintage garments? We were about to celebrate our 75th anniversary, and we actually had, I didn’t know this, but at another separate building, there was a rack of garments in a basement somewhere. And he’s like, y’all need to celebrate these and have an archive and, you know? And so he challenged me. They’re like, Hey, let’s go talk to, you know, the great grandson of Dickies, Philip Williamson, and say, hey, we’re going to actually preserve these. You don’t have to keep them in the basement. They will actually be in a better environment. So he said, yeah, absolutely. And we started probably this tiny, little 400 square foot room, I think, and started building from there. And I’ve remained in the design capacity. But as I got more and more involved with Ann and learning the history, I was terrible at history in school, but Ann, like, just made it so interesting to me. And just like, well, just the progression of work, where is the progression of the worker? I was like, this is cool. And she had me going home watching PBS documentaries and or documentaries, and because it all just ties into the storytelling of everything. And it definitely turned into a, you know, a passion. And I was like, i’m a person that loves puzzles. So I think for me, it’s like all the digging, all the research and trying to find the pieces to put it together, and that’s what and so it’s been very, very part time for me, because, again, design has taken most of my time. So in the 15 years that we’ve had it, you know, we put as much time as we’re allowed. You know, resources are always, you know, the same every place you go. But we’ve tried to build it as you know, best we can. And it continues to be, you know, just a great story for Dickies. 

Erin Narloch  7:03  

Yeah, I love the idea of there was a rack in a different building that held, kind of the initial items that helped create the foundation of the archive. I will say that that is generally the state of how things happen, right? Someone’s like, there’s a closet, there’s a rack, there’s a room, and all I can say is, thank you facilities for not tossing those items away that we had the opportunity to see and put them in their proper place. And I really loved what you said about people having trust when they hear that there’s an archive being built, that they don’t have to keep the items in the basement anymore, but right, give them to the right. So thinking of the time you have between both of you, right? I think we’re talking about almost 80 years with the organization between both of you. What are some of your most cherished memories when you think back to your career at Dickies?

Ann Richardson  8:13  

Well, I learned that actually work between the two of us was at 82 but well, I always enjoyed working with the people who, as a manufacturing company, we had to answer to the engineering people. We had great engineering for the product and to maintain efficiency, and I enjoyed working with those people, seeing factories and how garments were made and what we did to streamline production. It was always very important to tie into those efficiencies. I, you know, enjoyed shows working with customers directly to hear feedback, immediate and good, good feedback, especially retailers who were on the floor with their customers, and really knew what their concerns were and their needs were. He got really good feedback from those people. We had some great sales meetings because the other great feedback you get is from the sales people. So. And hearing what they had to say about everything was always really important. So getting that input and making a garment that was consistent with our manufacturing was, Oh, that was the name of the game. That also kept your price in line. You know, well, when I came here, all of our factories, we owned our own factories, and they were, most of them were in the United States. It’s a long time ago.

Corinna Wright  10:38  

I think it, yeah, I think for me, everything that Ann said that, of course, you know, it’s going to sound corny or cliche, but I think, of course, the people, you know, the people that we’ve not just the people that we’ve worked with, but of course, the consumers that we represent too. And I think because the people that will have that work at Dickies are embraced what Dickies is about, because it’s who Dickies represents who you are. And I think that also speaks to the longevity of Dickies, is that it has become, it’s becomes different communities, but it becomes representative of who you are. And I think, you know, Anna, I we kind of joke, because every five years or so, there’ll be an article that comes out, like, Dickies is cool again. And we look at each other like, when was it not cool? But it’s just that every generation discovers it and then internalizes it and then makes it themselves. So I think when people start working for Dickies, they realize, oh my gosh, you guys are from here to here. You’re in different markets, different communities. How do you do that? And I think that’s what I’ve loved about it, is that people, when they really learn what Dickies is about, have embraced it, and then they like, you know, been there getting the tattoos, and they’re getting, you know, they’re really into the, the what, the what the brand stands for. And I think that’s what I really loved about it, is the people that we serve, and the people that have worked at Dickies, just how much they know the brand means to them. It means a lot.

Erin Narloch  12:11  

That’s, that’s beautiful. Yeah, they made it their own over time and reinterpreted it. That’s, that’s it. So take us way back to the beginning. Can you share the origin story of Dickies and how Dickies came to be? Where did it come to be?

Ann Richardson  12:30  

Mr. Charles Nathan Williamson and “Colonel” E.E. Dickie, Colonel is an honorary title, but everybody called him the Colonel. They were partners in selling hats, and they sold hats and they distributed hats, and they were successful at that and they lived in South Texas. And then moved up to Fort Worth about 1904 and they started with some other people the United States overall, company of Texas. And that began in 1918 it was here in Fort Worth. The factory was close to downtown Fort Worth. And then, and by 1922 they bought out everyone else in the company and renamed it Williamson Dickie, and used the brand name Dickies best, and also joining the company was Charles Donovan Williamson. So he was CN’s son, and he came on board, I believe he had to start at the bottom, but quickly became general manager of the company, and then later secretary, and eventually he was the CEO, and he was very concerned with streamlining production, learning how to always, learning how to do things better. Yeah, he was an intense man who really pushed the company along. And so and then we’ve had successive generations, his son, Dick Williamson and then Philip Williamson have all shepherded the growth of the company into, you know, a multi million dollar International brand.

Erin Narloch  15:02  

Great. Thank you. So changing gears a little bit and talking about the archive itself. How do you all support the business, right, that, that international brand that you mentioned, and how, how does the archive support that? 

Ann Richardson  15:21  

Well, we do a lot of tours for old employees, new employees and customers, visitors from any from anywhere, all international or or customers that are here in the state, and then we support the product development process through institutional knowledge and garment details, showing them how how we get things a long time ago, and how those details have evolved to make the construction of a shirt or pant and yeah.

Corinna Wright  16:12  

Then coming from the design side, you know, definitely, you know, taking part in the strategy of the story, with the story, you know, working with design and marketing, not just on the U.S. side, but also in the pan Europe side and the APAC regions as well. So as a, as a global company, you know, we help set the stage with any kind of heritage product storytelling. So we can definitely share the evolution of our iconic products. You know, it started here, but we continue to evolve to get us to where that new story is going. So definitely helping with design, making sure that we stay true to our DNA and stuff. That’s how we support the designers and the merchants also. 

Erin Narloch  16:55  

Great, so I’m sure the designers love when they have the opportunity to come visit the archive, right? Like.

Ann Richardson  17:03  

Yes, yes. 

Erin Narloch  17:06  

Then can you talk a little bit about the collection? Like, how large is the archive at Dickies, what does it include?

Ann Richardson  17:15  

We’re up to 1000 square feet, and half of that at this building, half of that is the showroom, and half of it is storage. So we are very fortunate that some previous people saved a lot of things. We have quite a few, a lot of documentation. And then how many garments?

Corinna Wright  17:43  

It’s not a big garment collection. We probably have like 800 pieces between the used, any dead stock, any collaborative, collaboration products also. So about, probably about maybe 800 or something around there.

Ann Richardson  17:57  

But we started out with

Corinna Wright  18:00  

400, 300 they maybe that, if that, yeah, a couple of racks, so maybe not even that much. But we’ve got the, like Ann said, the garments, and then we’ve got, you know, catalogs that date back to 1928 that are really fun to look at. So we actually research, use those for research, and then we also have before email and everything. You know, we, the company, put out weekly newsletters to the sales team that talked about what products are high, you know, who’s doing what and everything. So they kept every week and then bound them in yearly volumes. So we actually go back to use those and research like when they’re announcing the introduction of different products. And those are fun to read. Those are fun.

Erin Narloch  18:47  

I can only imagine. I can only imagine. So, you know, Dickie celebrated a milestone recently, right? An anniversary. How did the archive support that? And can you talk, talk a little bit about what you all did.

Ann Richardson  19:03  

Well, we carried just some of our oldest garments and put them on display at certain events. We hand carried the garments in overhead on an airplane to England and had an event over there, and then it just supported the PR and the publicity around it, and with reinforcing the heritage of the brand. A lot of people’s brands are kind of trying to make up a heritage or looks, but we really have it, you know. So we’re really, really fortunate that way.

Erin Narloch  19:51  

Yeah, I think that’s so important that you, you mentioned that, and the idea that you know your history is truly unique to the company, and it can’t, can’t be made up. I just curious. How was the reception to seeing these archival pieces? What did people have to say?

Ann Richardson  20:11  

It varies. You know, some people are really into archival pieces, and other people are less excited about them, but it’s not unusual for somebody to come in the door and want to and say, oh, I want to touch everything. I want to see everything. And then there’s never time for that. Well, sometimes we’ll do a tour, and there’s only 15 minutes available, so that’s just a quick history. And other times, somebody will stay a couple of days and really dig into the details.

Erin Narloch  20:59  

I’m just curious, were any of the visitors to this exhibition, were they any, any people surprised at kind of the, you know, the depths of the history of the brand?

Corinna Wright  21:12  

You’re, you’re referring to the 100 Year Anniversary? Yeah, I think, yeah. I think that was one of our events that we took everything, you know, that we are able to display everything because that we worked with the company that, you know, we kind of sandwiched the icon so they could see front and back and everything so, and then we, of course, had the captions next to each one. We digitized and blew up a lot of our photos that we have. And definitely a lot of people were, you know, making the rounds around each garment and looking at them and and we do get a reaction sometimes, oh, well, I didn’t know. Oh, I didn’t know we did this, or we didn’t do, you know, we so it was great to be able to bring that out, you know, it’d be, and I don’t think that we do that enough, because it is an eye opener for a lot of people that don’t get a chance, maybe, to come see the archive that had that opportunity to then to see exactly how much we have in our history, and then just how much product and what we have in the archive.

Erin Narloch  22:11  

Yeah, and that there’s, there’s a confidence, because, you know you’re you’re old because you’re good, you’re not good because you’re old, right? There’s a difference, right, right? You have to be around, right, because you’ve been successful. Could you speak a little bit to the role of institutional memory? Like, why is institutional memory important? I mean, either one of you.

Corinna Wright  22:42  

You know what? I think it’s very important, you know, because it definitely talks about the culture of the brand, right, you know. And I think just conveying that message and making sure that it’s carried on to is really important and and I think if there’s anybody that maybe isn’t sure about the institutional knowledge, or even if a brand doesn’t have an archive yet, you know, I would bet that sooner or later, they would, you know, eventually they’re going to have that 10 year milestone, that 20 or 25 year milestone, and they’re going to want to celebrate it. And what better way to celebrate is to make sure that you start from the beginning, you get, you keep an institutional knowledge and you so that you can see the evolution of where the company is going, where the products are going. So, you know, I think it’s very important, and it’s definitely something that you know, that brands and companies need to stand on.

Ann Richardson  23:41  

Yeah, it supports, it supports the brand, the integrity of the brand. Yeah, completely.

Erin Narloch  23:51  

Something that you, you all mentioned earlier in our conversation, is this idea of having, having those newsletters, right that provided the context, I think so much context is embedded into any of the archives, holding right? It’s not just the product, but you know, Ann, you were mentioning the engineering that went into it, the product evolution, the people who made it come to be is equally as important as the end result, right? And what was society like? What was the worker like that you were equipping? I think that context right is so important to the work you all do. Um, can you talk to maybe, what you think is the most significant project you supported through the archive?

Corinna Wright  24:40  

I mean, I think, I mean, again, you’re going just going back to because it’s so recent, was the anniversary, the 100 year anniversary, I think to date, that’s been probably our, well, I think that one, and then actually the line that Anne talked about earlier, the 1922 line, because that really was a halo representing some of our oldest products. So one. She kicked that off. It was when we took our oldest 1933 set that came back to us. And this is one of those products that have the story that you were just mentioning. Because it’s a pant, it’s a matching shirt, matching pants that came to us by a gentleman from Turkey, Texas, which is near Amarillo, Texas. And we found a letter, a handwritten letter. It hit the shirt that said he bought it in 1933 and returned it in 1947 and, Ann replicated it. I mean, it is, it’s got, you know, tears, holes, repair work, patchwork. I mean, it’s amazing. And when Anne took that, she replicated it as is, with all the holes and tears and stains and everything, and then as worn new as it was brand new. So I think just taking that, you know, that was, that was a significant I mean, that’s when we first all started the 1922 to create that 1922 line. But, but that match said, you know, with the storytelling, it’s, I love the way that and presents it. And what stuck in my head is that time frame, as you are mentioning, how society lived at that time, if you think about the date, the time period, he wore it, 1933 return in 1947 and he was Amarillo in Amarillo, so he survived not just a depression, the dust bowl that was in that area that he lived in the war. I mean, that’s just to put yourself back in that place. And I always tell people, you can walk in a room and see a lot of tattered, torn garments, but the stories behind that are just like mind blowing, because you don’t understand hard work. You know, the way these people understood hard work.

Ann Richardson  26:41  

Yeah, they wore these garments until they literally were falling apart. We’ve got shirts that you can see through because they have been washed so many times. We’ve got a cover all that has them patched the knees within them, and then they patch the knees with another layer of denim, two layers and shafts, just almost, you know, they just literally wore them. And it’s like driving a car until the wheels fall off, that kind of thing.

Erin Narloch  27:20  

There’s work to be done, right, and they need the garment to protect them in some capacity.

Corinna Wright  27:26  

But I think just, and just going back to your question, I think just now, you know, providing these garments to, again, help the designers, because even with the stains and paint and everything. People take that and just love it and want to replicate it as is, you know. So supporting those efforts, you know, I think that’s where we’re really seeing a lot of love and passion about that.

Erin Narloch  27:52  

That’s great. So I have a question, and it’s a really hard one. I know that anyone who works in archives, when they’re asked this question, might change weekly or daily. Can you, can you tell me your favorite item in the collection and why?

Ann Richardson  28:11  

My favorite one is a coverall, and it was an unlined denim coverall, and I don’t know what the whole story is here, but the whole bottom of it, the pant is of it is gone, and they took out the zipper and put another button hole on the front and made that into a jacket. So, wow, that’s a reservation. Repurposing, yes, repurposing, yes, that’s right.

Erin Narloch  28:49  

Love that. 

Corinna Wright  28:50  

And I think for me, you know, besides that Joellen matches that, I think one of my favorites is a little kid’s child’s pant that dated back, we believe, for 1928 so when we started the archive, and we’re gathering our, you know, what do we have? There’s two things that I wanted to find. Is the U.S. bib overall, you know, which is really hard, because I have, we have no idea what that label looked like, and if there even was a label, so that I haven’t found that yet. And then the second one was, we have our oldest catalog that we have in our archive. It’s from 1928, and probably 80, 85% of it is kids wear. When they started the company, they had a work wear factory, and then the kids wear factory, and a lot of it was casual clothing, clothing for juveniles and stuff. And so I was like, I need to find one of these. And we have antique, a Texas antique weekend that’s two weeks between Houston and Austin. And this is just tents and barns, and you just walk through them. And there was one rack. There was a whole tent full of random stuff. And. A small rack, and I was like, one day I’m gonna find it and I just froze. And it was a tiny little, probably a two toddler pant, a jodre looking silhouette in a twill. It’s a blue twill. And I knew from looking at our little seed books that have little calendars in them. I recognize the label because it said, dawn is a black, blue, it was a black and gold label, and it’s a dawn Fort Worth that I knew that went back to the dawn casual lines, to the kids, and I just, like, picked it up, and I asked the lady, how much is this? And I tried, you know, you try not to look excited, cuz you never know they’re gonna jack up the prize. So, you know, she told me it was unbelievable price. I was like, Okay, I took it and I ran. I didn’t want to tell her why or whatever. I wish I had, I wish I had seen to ask the story about it. But I was like, and I think that one is so cute, but because with kids wear way back in the days, you don’t find stuff that’s almost dead stock. You know, most things that you find are going to be christening outfits that people you know, keep, you know, you know, protected or whatever, but you never find just like random kids items. So that’s probably my favorite. That’s probably one of my favorites. There are many images daily. 

Erin Narloch  31:10  

I love the story of how it was found as well. I know that you know brand archivists who have the opportunity to find some of those real items. You know, do you try to play cool? 

Corinna Wright  31:26  

Yes.

Erin Narloch  31:27  

Poker face as much as possible.

Corinna Wright  31:27  

I know they caught on to me one time. The one time I went there was at the Rose Bowl, and I did find that denim jacket and stuff. And I asked them, the guy, like your designer aren’t you, was like, dang it. Like busted, yes.

Erin Narloch  31:42  

Just in closing, I want to ask both of you, what, what do you hope for the future of the Dickies archive, like it is, you know, let’s say, 15 years into the future? What’s happening?

Ann Richardson  31:57  

I would hope that it continues to be nurtured and protected and of use and value to the designers and the product development people, the merchants and And, of course, the sales and and to the customers. Yeah, that just hope for future, reverence for what it is,

Corinna Wright  32:32  

Yeah, and I, and I, yeah, all everything Ann said, and then I, you know, also, there’s so much more to discover. There’s so much that we haven’t had a chance to discover, you know, and and as we get into boxes that we move from either in another building, you know, we there’s boxes that we have it and then, and those books, I was talking about, stuff that still needs to be brought out. And so again, you know, yeah, reverence. But also continue to dig, because there’s so much more stuff. There’s so much more knowledge that hasn’t been discovered. And then I think also, too is bringing, you know, one of the things that I’ve learned about is that community archives and participatory archives, and I would really love for that to happen, because, you know, we have such a great community based in skaters, you know, the car community, you know, different communities that have embraced Dickies. And I would love to, you know, work more communities. And I’d love to just go out and ask them their stories, you know, what has Dickies meant to you? Tell us your story, you know. And have them bring their garments, you know, the tattered stuff too. And not so we can have, you know, in 1933 from Joellen, but we also have, you know, and what is it meant today, and how’s that has helped you, you know, in your community. So I would love to bring that into, you know, 15 years, I’d love to hear those stories.

Erin Narloch  33:54  

Yeah, I think that’s, that’s a great point, this idea of a living archive, one that’s kind of democratized by who can contribute to it, and the points you made earlier about you know, Dickies is a brand that has been owned by different communities and really embraced by those communities. Well, I just want to thank both of you for your time today. It’s been fascinating. I just have so much respect for what you’ve accomplished, and kind of the stories that you’ve shared with us today. Um, in closing, is there anything else either one of you would like to add?

Ann Richardson  34:36  

Um, I had an experience a couple of years ago. I was doing a pop up show in Dallas, and the community was not the people I would normally associate every day with Dickies, but I was using a pop up tent that had a Dickies logo on it, and everybody that came up to that booth would say, Dickies. I love Dickies. So there’s that.

Erin Narloch  35:12  

There’s a, yeah, a deep love for it, and then thinking of communities that are so happy that you had the opportunity to connect with and it’s evident that the love that you both have for the brand came through our conversation today.

Corinna Wright  35:29  

Well thank you for having us, and thank you to all the archive community that have supported us you know, and answered all of our questions, you know, including yourself. I mean, we’ve reached out to as many people as you can like, and the archive community is wonderful. I’m just, we just think everybody that has helped us with this endeavor, so.

Ann Richardson  35:51  

Yeah.

Erin Narloch  35:53  

Great. We’re, we’re, we’ve been happy. I can speak, I can speak humbly on behalf of the archive community, and say it’s only it is, it is truly an act of love that we we help others that are in the pursuit of preservation, access and use of these incredible, you know, stories that are housed in a variety of archives, including these incredible brand archives. So thank you, both of you, for your conversation today.

I mean, wasn’t that a great conversation? I really appreciated how Ann was so vulnerable and shared that last recollection of what it is like to be a part of a brand that’s so beloved by so many, especially those that you might not have the chance to interact with every day. Well, that concludes today’s episode. I hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you join us next time. Thank you and have a great day.